Interview with Justin Simien: The Brilliant and Creative Mind Behind 'Dear White People'
Alyssa Audrey Taylor â17/ Emertainment Monthly Staff Writer
How did you come up with the idea for this movie?
Itâs sort of like, I was in college. I was like a senior in college and I was having conversations with friendsâŠI had a friend named Justin, he was like the straight version of me [laughs] and we were both in the Black student union and kinda talking about, isnât it funny that we have all these Black friends, and we have all these white friends, and we don’t hang out with them together. Are we friends with these guys cause weâre Black, and why do we talk differently, and we were having this conversation about our Black experience, and we were all having this Black experience but this conversation wasnât being had in the culture, it wasnât on TV, it wasnât on film, and the stuff the stuff that was supposed to be the Black experience on film was so strange and foreign to me. It was like the Madea stuff, which was speaking to a very specific set of the Black community but Hollywood assumed was all of us. And that combined with the fact that I just loved when Black people made arthouse movies and it made money like Do The Right Thing and Love Jones, they made money and theyâre about the complexities of our experiences, and it just clicked in my head: I have to make those types of movies, just with the conversations weâre having now. And that, that was 2006, that was when I first started drafting the screenplay and slowly but surely got it to a place where it became Dear White People.
Okay, so each character in the movie has a distinct and separate voice, and itâs interesting because we all know a Sam type person or a reggie, and we all know a Coco [laughter]. So were these characters easy for you to write and were they based on real life people?
The first versions of these characters were very different than the movie now, which is interesting because there was always a Coco and there was always a Sam, but they were very very different. When I started the screenplay they were very close to real life people, but through the years and when youâre writing a screenplay and rework the narrative, Iâm inspired by research Iâm doing, and conversations Iâm having, and books Iâm reading, they definitely changed. Sam is probably the exact same, Coco changed a lot. But the basics of their identity crisis was always the same. Lionel was always trying to struggle with being Black and gay, Coco was always trying to struggle with trying to elevate her class level, or lower it depending on the situation. Troy was always in the shadow of his parents. But the way they spoke and the way and  they wore themselves to the world, that did change a bit. But they started off being based on real people and became their own people. And Sam, I donât know where she came from she was in the back of my head the whole time and she wanted to speak and she did.
I know a Sam, I know a couple of them. So this is a fun question. Was Coco named after Kelly Rowland because her nameâs Kelendria [Cocoâs real name is Colandrea Connors in the film] and I donât even know if you know, but thatâs Kellyâs real name!
Oh, I did know that because Iâm from Houston, Texas and Beyonce went to my high school, so I did know that but it was not intentional Kelly Rowland thing, but I obviously grew up with a lot of Black people and Iâm in the Hollywood industry so i know a lot of people that changed their ethnic sounding names to something more vaguely European, and it was a funny way to talk about that, to immediately insert an identity crisis with a subtitle and you immediately know whatâs going on, so it was a funny interesting character quirk of hers.
Right, right. I mean, that was partially my experience, and I felt like that aspect of the Black experience was completely missing. And since I started writing the movie, Pariah came out, but thatâs it [sighs]. The movieâs all about the weight of the identities that are sort of imposed upon us.Ya know, if youâre a Black person, or trans or a woman or whatever it is, you have to walk through the world constantly having to bob and weave through what other people imagine about you. And that is so frustrating, because as a Black man, itâs mutually exclusive to be a Black man and gay, or like trans or whatever and thatâs nowhere in the culture, and if it is in the culture, nine times out of ten thereâs a very negative connotation. And so you start to feel like you canât walk through the world being your fully integrated self, you have to be a version of yourself depending on who youâre with and itâs like a purgatory, itâs like a personal purgatory and I thought it was like, a lot of people were having that experience, and it was completely absent from the conversation. So for me there was no better way really to talk about identity, and there was no way I could talk about Black identity without having a character like him in the film.
Yeah I really appreciated how he was in the film and how he had these negative thoughts already about being around the Black kids because he was gay, because I know that struggle so well, and I know so many people , who are gonna appreciate those scenes when they see them. Also, Samâs character, I know you said you donât know where she came from, but her experiences and her struggles with being biracial, and her identity and being that strong powerful Black woman whoâs also categorized as being bitter and angry, and also has this Black guy whoâs attracted to her but sheâs attracted to this white guy, and sheâs struggling with her identityâŠI really appreciated that, and if you could talk about writing her?
Sam really came out of my subconscious, and I was writing herm and I had a great love for Huey from The Boondocks and Dap from School Dayz and Malcolm X from Malcolm X, these characters from pseudo militant, type A, Black nationalistic personalities, it was just a character type that was ingrained in my head. But also, my mother is Creole and [thatâs how] I grew up, and I didnât come from an interracial family I guess, but Creole is all kinds of stuff, and people totally look at us weird. My mother looks Puerto Rican, people donât really know what she is, so walking around holding my motherâs hand I felt that. I felt that I was odd or that we were odd, and she explained to me growing up in the south, she grew up in southern Louisiana, that she couldnât be white, couldnât pass as white, people knew she was Black, her mother worked in other peopleâs houses, that was a thing, so like she wasnât totally accepted in the Black community either because she was so light, and she felt pressure to make a choice and be loud about it. âI am an African American.â And thatâs an interesting struggle, itâs interesting again that the presumptions of other people force us to make declarations about who we are, and thatâs the story she [Sam] tells Gabe, about being interracial, about holding her fatherâs had as a kid and the complicated feelings that that engendered in her, that came out of like a therapy session, I didnât even remember having that feeling as a kid, and that suddenly came to me in this moment and I was like âoh my godâ, that really, profoundly shaped who I am. And, she kinda… something in me needed to give birth to that character, certainly. I think sheâs like an amalgamation of a lot of things in my life.
I definitely, like I connected with that speech so much, and I mean, just like you, I didnât come from an interracial family, but Iâm of mixed heritage, like my mom is way lighter skinned than me, and my grandfather I thought was white for a long while, but like heâs part white, and like-
Yeah, I felt the same way, I had no concept of Blackness at all, because all of the Black people in my family were every possible shade of human being, every possible shade. We had people in our family looking Asian, looking latino, people looking as Black as like they were straight from Africa. It was real. And so for me it was like, oh, cool, people. I didnât have any awareness that I was Black, and oh Iâm different from people until like 5th grade.
I loved Cocoâs like, angry monologue towards the end of the movie, actually I also liked the complexities of her and Troy, because we all know a lot of Troys. I appreciated the whole interaction between Troy and his father, because I feel like a lot of Black people, especially Black males feel pressure from their families to go to certain colleges, and [the conversation that goes] âYouâre doing this, or weâre not paying for schoolâ, and I loved Cocoâs monologue, where sheâs trying so hard to elevate herself, and itâs funny, I donât think I realized until that moment, I mean I kinda got it with the YouTube Video, but I didnât realize how aware she was of how everyone viewed her. And itâs really because sheâs played as a foil to Sam, and legitimately her and Sam are two sides of the same coin.
Yeah, totally. In fact, there was a scene that I had to cut for time, but thereâs a scene between the two of them, where she [Coco] says âYou look down on me, but youâre Blacking it up for them [the Blacks], and Iâm Blacking it up for them [the whites], and whatâs the difference between the two of us?â And Troy and Lionel, too, both feel the pressure of what theyâre expected to be but theyâve reacted to that pressure in different ways. And, yeah, for them, that scene is a really complicated, dirty truth scene, thereâs a few scenes that for me were like âletâs tell some dirty truthâ. And Coco is both saying something that is true to defend an action that she feels ashamed about, I think Coco feels ashamed of what sheâs done in that moment because of Sam, and sheâs trying to defend it, and what these kids have done is indefensible, but Coco feels ashamed about what sheâs done; itâs just a very complicated scene and itâs just a situation that frankly, that itâs so interesting, for instance, whenever I see a Black reality TV star and Iâm not going to name any names in particular, because there are a few of them, that theyâre unaware of the fact that they were literally sought out because of how they portray themselves, and they were edited and scripted in a certain way, that frankly, demeans other people in the race, and then they defend their actions on this television show. And they defend it as if itâs their life mission, but they have no idea that theyâre reinforcing stereotypes. For the rest of us, and theyâre defending actions that cut them down. And thatâs such an interesting phenomenon in our society, and I wanted to try and explore that in some small way.
[Laughs] That I canât get into, but I do like the Real Housewives.
Mhm, I love me some Real Housewives of Atlanta, they’re coming back soon.
And I watch stuff, and and itâs true, thereâs a great documentary, Miss Representation, that talks about how girls want to be president until age six, and because theyâre saturated with images in the media, they want to be housewives. We oftentimes do not realize just how powerful cultural images are, and arenât aware of how theyâve shaped us. And as someone with a partial addiction to reality television, and I talk about this in the Dear White People book, ya know, weâve got to put our awareness cap on and realize this is not reality, this is a scripted program, this is not representative of anyone. If anything itâs a representative of television executives and what they think people want to watch.
Iâve heard a lot of people, like girls on Bad Girls Club, talk about âoh thatâs not how stuff went down, those fights happened, but thatâs not what set it off.â
Yeah itâs all reshot, itâs complete fiction.
What was this party scene like, writing it, directing it and watching it, because I watched the movie by myself earlier today, and I was so mad and uncomfortable during that scene, and I was really mad because there was nobody else in that room to be like âwhat the f—.â
[Laughs] Good, Iâm glad, that was the correct response. It takes audiences through the visceral feeling of what itâs like when you are projected back to yourself, from a group of people who have no contact with you. And honestly, thatâs what I feel like, say, when I watch a Black television show that clearly has an all white writing staff, or a Black character, or sometimes reality TV, where thereâs no Black person involved in the making of this, canât be, because this is so not me, but itâs being reflected back as if it is me. I wanted to put people through that visceral experience, and unfortunately, the Blackface party is a phenomenon on college campuses, and ya know, there was just no better way in my head to do that. And so, I wrote the scene, and I tried to put everyoneâs fingers on it, I tried to make everyone responsible for it, because it wasnât about moralizing, and it wasnât about white people do this, it wasnât about that. But I wanted to lead everyone to that experience, because that experience to me is a very visceral way of saying what the movieâs about, which is âWhat do you feel like when youâre told what your identity is?â And you know, itâs a very oppressive feeling, and that was the only way I could articulate that through a narrative.
Right, and I think itâs interesting because there are a lot of people who feel like theyâre not oppressed, and theyâre gonna watch that scene and realize it, and I feel like people who are oppressed, and know it… I feel like people are gonna leave that scene and be mad as hell and they should be.
They should be! The thing is, the oppression is covert and weâre not aware of it, it affects us all in ways that we have to deal with, and if you wake up stuck in the denial stage, aggrieving racism, you donât wanna believe that itâs real, or sexism or whatever the case may be, if youâre stuck in denial, youâre never going to fully actualize as a human being. And youâve  got to be aware of how the world around you has affected what you havenât become. Thatâs really important to acknowledge that.
Yeah, nobody shouldâve went to the party. That shouldâve been the response.
My last question is, how do you feel? You are officially a voice for the young people. Like, I donât think you understand. The Black kids in Boston, and who go to Emerson, who I know all over, Black people all over are excited to go see this movie, and I know all of us who are teenagers, and are seeing all thatâs going on now, like with Mike Brown and Trayvon Martin⊠I know that, a lot of my friends are artists, and a lot of us feel that youâre our voice. How do you feel about that?
I havenât…I have to let it in at some point, you know itâs so surreal to me. I did this because I wanted something out there that reflected me and to feel that Iâve made something that reflects other people is so gratifying. Itâs wonderful and in the moment, Iâm still catching up to it, to be honest with you. And also my head is on the future, you know we have so much work to do, like honestly, like so much depends upon the movie doing well in the eyes of the industry, it really is true that you only get what worked last year and the fact that we broke through, and got the movie made, and got it in theaters despite the fact that thereâs been nothing else like it for a really long time, is a pretty rare, rare moment, and if we donât support the film in the box office, like itâs not going to happen again. And the artists coming up after me, I have friends who are writing scripts and theyâre amazing and if we do well, that script is getting made by a studio for millions of dollars, and if we donât do well, youâre screwed, Iâm so sorry. But that really is the reality. I would say that Iâm very touched by it, and I hope that if itâs as meaningful to people as you say it is, then we gotta show up for this movie, not because I made it, not because I stand to earn any profit by it, cause I really donât, but like, because, like I wanna see more. I donât want to make the movies just because I wanna see them. Like, I want you and your generation to make the movies that I go and see. I want to see myself in a way I never saw myself before.
Thank you so much for the interview, and thank you so much for the movie, itâs wonderful. Going to a predominantly white college, I understood all of these characters so much, so thank you.
Thank you so much, I appreciate it! and I love your fingernail polish. [Laughs]
Dear White People opens nationwide October 24.
Great interview! Really answered a lot of questions I had myself and also gave an even deeper insight into the film (which was lovely).